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	<title>Comments for RAIL</title>
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	<link>http://railct.com</link>
	<description>A blog about Reasoning, Argumentation, and Informal Logic</description>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by Megalomania vs. Logic &#171; THINQ</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Megalomania vs. Logic &#171; THINQ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is wrong on many levels.  I&#8217;m happy to see several blogs that have written about it, another here, questioning and criticizing the action with concern for the impact this could have (or has already [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is wrong on many levels.  I&#8217;m happy to see several blogs that have written about it, another here, questioning and criticizing the action with concern for the impact this could have (or has already [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by drcateh</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drcateh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that ours is a methodological dispute, Steve; and I agree that scepticism is a healthy and necessary part of critical thinking, and especially valuable to kickstart it. But, I maintain that &lt;strong&gt;progressive&lt;/strong&gt; scepticism can also undermine rationality -- there can be too much of a good thing, which is perhaps the core reason that I consider myself a naturalist/pragmatist.  

The apology is here: http://www.vince-inc.com/vincent/?p=1175, plus posted on the feminist philosophers and Leiter blogs.

Cheers,
Cate]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that ours is a methodological dispute, Steve; and I agree that scepticism is a healthy and necessary part of critical thinking, and especially valuable to kickstart it. But, I maintain that <strong>progressive</strong> scepticism can also undermine rationality &#8212; there can be too much of a good thing, which is perhaps the core reason that I consider myself a naturalist/pragmatist.  </p>
<p>The apology is here: <a href="http://www.vince-inc.com/vincent/?p=1175" rel="nofollow">http://www.vince-inc.com/vincent/?p=1175</a>, plus posted on the feminist philosophers and Leiter blogs.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Cate</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by Steve</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I click on the page now I get &quot;page not found&quot;, so I&#039;m not even seeing the apology.  Just the same if he&#039;s copped to being that dense then there&#039;s no point in pursuing the devil&#039;s advocate line of argument any further in this case. 

In the case of skepticism, however, I believe I might generally be more friendly than you are. I think a skeptical point of view is very salutary in kick-starting nearly any line of inquiry. In fact, I&#039;m of a mind to think that a case for any position isn&#039;t really complete if one cannot rule out the nearest-to-hand skeptical possibilities. I&#039;m not talking about brains-in-vats here, but in cases like this one for example, the possibility that Hendricks was putting forward some kind of meta-commentary. Of course his apology rules that out, so in this case the skeptical burden is met with no problem: there really is nothing more to the images than their sexist content. 

It&#039;s maybe a methodological point that could be debated in another sphere, but I often find it incredibly helpful to wonder what it would be like for the other side to be 100% right, for my perceptions to be wildly inaccurate, my data to be biased, etc.. I don&#039;t know that it would have been possible for me to claim the sympathy I have with feminism at all today were not for this intellectual attitude. It was skepticism that put me on the path to the inquiries that led me to a sense of what feminism is and why it&#039;s a good thing.

But the crux of the exercise is that you do it all the time. Skepticism for friends as well as for enemies; double skepticism for yourself. It may be a little homespun (from a philosophical point of view), but I cannot think of any better remedy for the creep of biases and dogmatic thinking. That&#039;s why I&#039;d defend it as an important part of critical thinking in any context.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I click on the page now I get &#8220;page not found&#8221;, so I&#8217;m not even seeing the apology.  Just the same if he&#8217;s copped to being that dense then there&#8217;s no point in pursuing the devil&#8217;s advocate line of argument any further in this case. </p>
<p>In the case of skepticism, however, I believe I might generally be more friendly than you are. I think a skeptical point of view is very salutary in kick-starting nearly any line of inquiry. In fact, I&#8217;m of a mind to think that a case for any position isn&#8217;t really complete if one cannot rule out the nearest-to-hand skeptical possibilities. I&#8217;m not talking about brains-in-vats here, but in cases like this one for example, the possibility that Hendricks was putting forward some kind of meta-commentary. Of course his apology rules that out, so in this case the skeptical burden is met with no problem: there really is nothing more to the images than their sexist content. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s maybe a methodological point that could be debated in another sphere, but I often find it incredibly helpful to wonder what it would be like for the other side to be 100% right, for my perceptions to be wildly inaccurate, my data to be biased, etc.. I don&#8217;t know that it would have been possible for me to claim the sympathy I have with feminism at all today were not for this intellectual attitude. It was skepticism that put me on the path to the inquiries that led me to a sense of what feminism is and why it&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
<p>But the crux of the exercise is that you do it all the time. Skepticism for friends as well as for enemies; double skepticism for yourself. It may be a little homespun (from a philosophical point of view), but I cannot think of any better remedy for the creep of biases and dogmatic thinking. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;d defend it as an important part of critical thinking in any context.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by drcateh</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drcateh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In short, Steve, no.  Critical thinking is one thing, boundless scepticism is another.  That&#039;s a pretty weak devil, even if a philosophically popular one.  I don&#039;t see any racial irony here, and the reasoning you suggest involves a number of equally implausible assumptions.

Perhaps my flippancy was misleading. Rather than jumping to conclusions, critics of this image including myself spent most of yesterday fretting over what Hendricks could possibly have been thinking.  Critics are deeply upset to see a high-ranking philosopher exploit young women&#039;s bodies, and outraged that he would do so for the purposes of publicizing education.  

There is a great deal of speculation on the feminist philosophers blog about what the motivation might be (including me in comment 76): http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/um/.  Many comments there suggest the possibility of artistic merit, but fail to cite any.  If Hendricks was trying to be satirical, he failed; and failing to recognize the difficulties of being ironic about objectification is sexist, even if nothing else is.  

I wonder what sources and contexts you find deserve such extensive scepticism, even as an exercise in critical thinking?  However, Hendricks has now retracted the images and posted an apology.  The apology reflects his complete ignorance about gender subordination (see final comments on feminist philosophers blog).  Hendricks is no artist, however good a logician he may be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In short, Steve, no.  Critical thinking is one thing, boundless scepticism is another.  That&#8217;s a pretty weak devil, even if a philosophically popular one.  I don&#8217;t see any racial irony here, and the reasoning you suggest involves a number of equally implausible assumptions.</p>
<p>Perhaps my flippancy was misleading. Rather than jumping to conclusions, critics of this image including myself spent most of yesterday fretting over what Hendricks could possibly have been thinking.  Critics are deeply upset to see a high-ranking philosopher exploit young women&#8217;s bodies, and outraged that he would do so for the purposes of publicizing education.  </p>
<p>There is a great deal of speculation on the feminist philosophers blog about what the motivation might be (including me in comment 76): <a href="http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/um/" rel="nofollow">http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/um/</a>.  Many comments there suggest the possibility of artistic merit, but fail to cite any.  If Hendricks was trying to be satirical, he failed; and failing to recognize the difficulties of being ironic about objectification is sexist, even if nothing else is.  </p>
<p>I wonder what sources and contexts you find deserve such extensive scepticism, even as an exercise in critical thinking?  However, Hendricks has now retracted the images and posted an apology.  The apology reflects his complete ignorance about gender subordination (see final comments on feminist philosophers blog).  Hendricks is no artist, however good a logician he may be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by Steve</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-901</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll be the last person to defend these images, but that said, in the spirit of critical thinking, I want to play devil&#039;s advocate for a minute...

How do we know these images are not satirical in intent--perhaps a comment on the crass commericalization of higher education? Has no one else but me noticed that Hendricks, as a black man, might not be invoking racial stereotypes here too? (If you find yourself chuffing at this then I bid you look at the ads for colleges and universities in your area--you will find them nicely segregated by similarly insensitive demographic stereotypes.) Could it not be that we&#039;re missing the point because we&#039;re not paying enough attention to the juxtaposition of person-less, abstract formal logic and the cognitive flaws of the people that practice it--the most ready-to-hand example of such flaws being things like racial and gender biases? (And isn&#039;t non-montonic logic a discipline that is founded on a straightforward recognition that idealized monotonic logics, though interesting, are inadequate to the task of describing realistic patterns of inference?)

If we rush to condemnation of any communicative act without stopping to consider that our interpretation of it might be wildly out of sync with what the communicator intends, and (especially) if we do so on the basis of the race, gender, religion, etc. of the communicator, no matter what it is, then aren&#039;t we guilty of the same kind of prejudicial thinking we oppose? 

If we find ourselves saying: &quot;Yes, of course it&#039;s likely that these images are intended as satire, or humor, or some other sort of meta-commentary but it&#039;s not likely because Hendricks is male/the product of patriarchal Danish society/etc.&quot; then, given that we do not have any concrete evidence about what the intent of the images really was, aren&#039;t we guilty of some degree of confirmation bias ourselves? 

The point here is not to defend Hendricks or exploitative, &quot;cheescake&quot;-type pics of anyone. I don&#039;t know his motives (or those of the models in these pictures) any more than anyone else does. As someone with a little background in art, however, I do know that it usually pays not to underestimate the intent behind deliberately provocative images like this. Hendricks may well be an egomaniac, but it&#039;s wildly implausible to me that he would have had no idea of the negative reaction these kinds of images were going to draw. In fact, he may be baiting feminists in order to drum up some controversy and get his name in the papers. In that case, overheated responses to this would put the joke squarely on us.

And again, he may in fact just be a sexist egomaniac who thinks ripping off memes from 1980s rock videos is kewl. (In this case he&#039;s both boring and offensive.) The point is not to defend him or the images at all. The point is that we don&#039;t know, and that because we know images like this have the power to provoke us to betray the kind of principles of critical thinking that are often the focus here on RAIL, we ought to be careful in assessing them when they come from sources and contexts like this one. That way, not only will we avoid being played by a facile trick, but we will also uphold the standards of critical thinking for which we so often advocate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be the last person to defend these images, but that said, in the spirit of critical thinking, I want to play devil&#8217;s advocate for a minute&#8230;</p>
<p>How do we know these images are not satirical in intent&#8211;perhaps a comment on the crass commericalization of higher education? Has no one else but me noticed that Hendricks, as a black man, might not be invoking racial stereotypes here too? (If you find yourself chuffing at this then I bid you look at the ads for colleges and universities in your area&#8211;you will find them nicely segregated by similarly insensitive demographic stereotypes.) Could it not be that we&#8217;re missing the point because we&#8217;re not paying enough attention to the juxtaposition of person-less, abstract formal logic and the cognitive flaws of the people that practice it&#8211;the most ready-to-hand example of such flaws being things like racial and gender biases? (And isn&#8217;t non-montonic logic a discipline that is founded on a straightforward recognition that idealized monotonic logics, though interesting, are inadequate to the task of describing realistic patterns of inference?)</p>
<p>If we rush to condemnation of any communicative act without stopping to consider that our interpretation of it might be wildly out of sync with what the communicator intends, and (especially) if we do so on the basis of the race, gender, religion, etc. of the communicator, no matter what it is, then aren&#8217;t we guilty of the same kind of prejudicial thinking we oppose? </p>
<p>If we find ourselves saying: &#8220;Yes, of course it&#8217;s likely that these images are intended as satire, or humor, or some other sort of meta-commentary but it&#8217;s not likely because Hendricks is male/the product of patriarchal Danish society/etc.&#8221; then, given that we do not have any concrete evidence about what the intent of the images really was, aren&#8217;t we guilty of some degree of confirmation bias ourselves? </p>
<p>The point here is not to defend Hendricks or exploitative, &#8220;cheescake&#8221;-type pics of anyone. I don&#8217;t know his motives (or those of the models in these pictures) any more than anyone else does. As someone with a little background in art, however, I do know that it usually pays not to underestimate the intent behind deliberately provocative images like this. Hendricks may well be an egomaniac, but it&#8217;s wildly implausible to me that he would have had no idea of the negative reaction these kinds of images were going to draw. In fact, he may be baiting feminists in order to drum up some controversy and get his name in the papers. In that case, overheated responses to this would put the joke squarely on us.</p>
<p>And again, he may in fact just be a sexist egomaniac who thinks ripping off memes from 1980s rock videos is kewl. (In this case he&#8217;s both boring and offensive.) The point is not to defend him or the images at all. The point is that we don&#8217;t know, and that because we know images like this have the power to provoke us to betray the kind of principles of critical thinking that are often the focus here on RAIL, we ought to be careful in assessing them when they come from sources and contexts like this one. That way, not only will we avoid being played by a facile trick, but we will also uphold the standards of critical thinking for which we so often advocate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by Lady Day</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lady Day]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, RAIL. Linked your post here: http://heyladyheylady.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=38&amp;action=edit&amp;message=6&amp;postpost=v2]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, RAIL. Linked your post here: <a href="http://heyladyheylady.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=38&#038;action=edit&#038;message=6&#038;postpost=v2" rel="nofollow">http://heyladyheylady.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=38&#038;action=edit&#038;message=6&#038;postpost=v2</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by Bijan Parsia</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bijan Parsia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good thing from this kerfluffle is that I found this blog!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good thing from this kerfluffle is that I found this blog!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in logic by drcateh</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/02/22/women-in-logic/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drcateh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 20:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1285#comment-897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A google cache of the whole page as it was is here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F6abz1hh4WkJ:www.vince-inc.com/vincent]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A google cache of the whole page as it was is here:<br />
<a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F6abz1hh4WkJ:www.vince-inc.com/vincent" rel="nofollow">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F6abz1hh4WkJ:www.vince-inc.com/vincent</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Burden of proof and intellectual property by Niya</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2012/01/19/burden-of-proof-and-intellectual-property/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1250#comment-895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In certain cases it will be burden of proof in the US. But, both PIPA and SOPA are designed to tackle online piracy, with particular emphasis on illegal copies of films and other forms of media hosted on foreign servers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In certain cases it will be burden of proof in the US. But, both PIPA and SOPA are designed to tackle online piracy, with particular emphasis on illegal copies of films and other forms of media hosted on foreign servers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Does Teaching Critical Thinking Include Challenging Students&#8217; Beliefs? by drcateh</title>
		<link>http://railct.com/2011/12/23/does-teaching-critical-thinking-include-challenging-students-beliefs/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drcateh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://railct.com/?p=1204#comment-799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What a nightmare, Steve!  I&#039;m heading back to teach critical thinking next Fall, for the first time in several years.  I had tried one text after another without ever finding the sort of epistemological orientation that I wanted.  I don&#039;t think that until recently I realized how much I really wanted or needed epistemological content in my critical thinking class, but I&#039;m convinced now that it will help.  (Wish me luck!) 
My hope is to recreate some of my early experiences teaching critical thinking that were moderately successful and rewarding.  Later experiences were exercises in frustration for the students and for me, and it was a relief to be away from that course for a few years.  That increased difficulty may be due to cultural changes affecting the students, and also my expectations of my own pedagogy increased but ran up against my own ignorance about informal logic and cognitive science (which I have since been remedying).
I&#039;ve begun to involve discussions of relativism in many (all?) of my courses.  I think this helps to engage students, and allow them to work through their educational malaise.  This happened inadvertently, as a means to draw students in to the material, and I&#039;m beginning to think it&#039;s a good general strategy.
My current experiment with making relativism (ethical/epistemological -- they meld nicely there) part of my philosophy instruction is aided by the increasing availability of material in social epistemology, and new philosophy textbooks engaging cognitive science (Kenyon&#039;s &quot;Critical Thinking in a Blurry World&quot;).  I&#039;m going to excerpt some material on relativism from Schwarze and Lape&#039;s &quot;Thinking Socratically&quot; too -- that was the first text I tried because of it&#039;s explicit epistemology, but it&#039;s otherwise idiosyncratic.  I&#039;ve also decided, for instance, to teach Davidson&#039;s &quot;On the very idea of a conceptual scheme&quot; as part of my 4th-year overview of &quot;recent American philosophy.&quot; (Fortunately, Saul&#039;s &quot;Feminism: Issues and Arguments&quot; has a final chapter on reasoning cross-culturally; but the students would like more!)  
Frankly, I&#039;ve always wanted to teach issues of scientific culture in philosophy of science, but have felt restricted by the pressure to cover canonical materials.  That is the sacrifice, and it may be worthwhile.  Having said all this, I&#039;ve now convinced myself!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a nightmare, Steve!  I&#8217;m heading back to teach critical thinking next Fall, for the first time in several years.  I had tried one text after another without ever finding the sort of epistemological orientation that I wanted.  I don&#8217;t think that until recently I realized how much I really wanted or needed epistemological content in my critical thinking class, but I&#8217;m convinced now that it will help.  (Wish me luck!)<br />
My hope is to recreate some of my early experiences teaching critical thinking that were moderately successful and rewarding.  Later experiences were exercises in frustration for the students and for me, and it was a relief to be away from that course for a few years.  That increased difficulty may be due to cultural changes affecting the students, and also my expectations of my own pedagogy increased but ran up against my own ignorance about informal logic and cognitive science (which I have since been remedying).<br />
I&#8217;ve begun to involve discussions of relativism in many (all?) of my courses.  I think this helps to engage students, and allow them to work through their educational malaise.  This happened inadvertently, as a means to draw students in to the material, and I&#8217;m beginning to think it&#8217;s a good general strategy.<br />
My current experiment with making relativism (ethical/epistemological &#8212; they meld nicely there) part of my philosophy instruction is aided by the increasing availability of material in social epistemology, and new philosophy textbooks engaging cognitive science (Kenyon&#8217;s &#8220;Critical Thinking in a Blurry World&#8221;).  I&#8217;m going to excerpt some material on relativism from Schwarze and Lape&#8217;s &#8220;Thinking Socratically&#8221; too &#8212; that was the first text I tried because of it&#8217;s explicit epistemology, but it&#8217;s otherwise idiosyncratic.  I&#8217;ve also decided, for instance, to teach Davidson&#8217;s &#8220;On the very idea of a conceptual scheme&#8221; as part of my 4th-year overview of &#8220;recent American philosophy.&#8221; (Fortunately, Saul&#8217;s &#8220;Feminism: Issues and Arguments&#8221; has a final chapter on reasoning cross-culturally; but the students would like more!)<br />
Frankly, I&#8217;ve always wanted to teach issues of scientific culture in philosophy of science, but have felt restricted by the pressure to cover canonical materials.  That is the sacrifice, and it may be worthwhile.  Having said all this, I&#8217;ve now convinced myself!</p>
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